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scadgrad
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 9121
Location: The Bear cave

Post thoughts Reply with quote
We don't have access to Evanora's full spellbook. I think there is a very strong possibility that she has CLW and just didn't memorize it. It happens. The Witch spell list allows a Witch to be a one-person adventuring team and literally do just about anything. They can make excellent healing support characters or go full offense, bad touch/debuff, team support,. Like Oracles and Inquisitors they are incredibly flexible. Both Allen and Bill can carry Dispel Magic (which Urza did throughout the entirety of Jade Regent) as a daily slot and at this point, without a dedicated Cleric, that's probably not a bad idea. Suffice to say, when you need a Dispel, you REALLY need a Dispel.

@ Bill,

I don't think you quite grocked how instrumental spell casting can be for the success or failure of PF parties at high level play. You have only so many slots I know, but given that the Wizard in the group has completely abdicated his support role (which is fine, that's what Allen wants to do), you're really going to do as best as you can to fix stuff like this. Honestly, I don't think anyone realized this 'til last night. Everyone can go look at Bill's and Allen's spell lists for reference. Allen is basically a DPS dude who does so at range. In almost no way can he support the party. Really, he's sort of like an archer with no AC. Bill is a typical Bad Touch Witch build kitted out to be a nemesis to enemies, particularly, one enemy at a time. In a vacuum, these are both fine ideas, but at the level we are at now, someone is going to have to assert battlefield control and have some contingencies on hand when things go south. It's a lot to ask for our Witch since no one other than me has ever played one, but Evanora may have to shoulder that load and only have, maybe a spell per level for "Ruin That Bad Guy" sorts of spells. Honestly, and you have all seen this, Slumber scales as we gain levels so, that alone is about as vicious of a Save or Die spell as is possible and she basically has an unlimited number of those. As an aside, you might want to remember that using Accursed Hex (which is awesome by the way) has to be done on the next round after you tried it on a target, not several rounds later as we did last night.

Spells for Bill to consider to help in the support role:

1st Level
Cure Light Wounds: Witches really are pretty decent healers and with Spectral Hand running, this gives you some battlefield medic ability
Grasping Corpse: A fine spell to target enemy spell casters who almost always have a few lackeys on hand that die very quickly in combat.
Undine's Curse: Coup de Gras on victims of your Slumber hex
Mount: Until a better option presents itself, this will make you much better in combat saving you tons of action economy. It might be a little awkward in tight spaces, but I would never play a Witch without some sort of supplemental mobility.
Reduce Person: A solution for yourself if you want to ride a Giant Frog, Giant Spider, Wolf etc. Basically, this involves Mount, Communal follow by Alter Summoned Monster. This would allow you to adapt one of the Mounts (lasts hours per level) and voila, you have yourself a medium-sized mount that you control utterly and completely. Reduce Person is only minutes per level, so you'd probably want a Rod of Extend spell so that you don't have to memorize it more than 2X or so.

2nd Level
Carry Companion: Prep a couple of mounts for your reduce person trick and carry them around in your pocket. Alternatively, keep your familair safe from harm when needed.
Cure Moderate Wounds: Again, you can be a solid healer when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't have more than one of these at each level, if even that, but having a few cures isn't a bad idea.
Detect Thoughts: One of the best scouting spells there is, works well with Lucien's Detect Evil.
Euphoric Cloud: The Fort save is pretty lousy, but they have to save each round they stay in it. As a bonus, No SR which is pretty damn good. Worth trying out as a ranged battlefield control. Certainly screws enemies who want to stand at distance and hurl spells or missiles.
Lipstich: Save or Suck for enemy spellcasters. The Fort save is ass, but many spellcasters suck at Fort saves so...
Vomit Swarm: One of the reasons to play a Witch. You get a swarm that you can control. Ruinous to enemy spellcasters and just hugely problematic to anyone without AoE.

3rd Level
Accursed Glare: Save or Suck for days per level. Gross.
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance: Just about the final word in scouting.
Dispel Magic: Never play again without one of these. The party will be much the better for it. I know it feels bad to have 1 of your 3rd level slots taken up, but you'll save the party from TPKs at times just due to this spell.
Lightning Bolt: You may find that having the ability to do some downfield blasting every now and then to be quite handy.
Polymorph Familiar: And here you have your perfect mount if you don't mind the risk associated with doing so. It's unlikely that foes will realize that your mount is in fact your familiar. At our current level, this opens up the possibility for some serious shenanigans. I don't know, riding my own Dire Bat seems pretty cool. There are loads of Large and Huge animals that would serve as excellent mounts. Same goes for Medium Magical Beasts. You could reduce person on yourself and ride a Blink Dog for instance. At 11th level, you get a unicorn. All kinds of possibilities here and you can get the spell extended with a Rod of Metamagic for 18 minutes per casting at our current level. Combine with Carry Companion for even better usage.
Pugwampi’s Grace: Similar to Accursed Glare.
Sleet Storm: Huge AoE that can hamper movement and control the battlefield.
Speak With Dead: Intell gathering par excellence.
Summon Monster III: Solid

4th Level
Celestial Healing, Greater: Considerably better than the lower level version and ideal for supporting Lucien in big fights.
Confusion: Excellent crowd control.
Cure Serious Wounds: Healing. No sense in having these at every level, but sprinkling a few among your daily spells is actually a solid ideal.
Familiar Melding: Can be incredibly fun with Polymorph Familiar making you an excellent infiltrator.
Ice Storm; Excellent Battlefield Control creating a swath of difficult terrain and doing some damage.
Innocuous Shape: More superb scouting. Who needs a druid?
Scrying: Obviously an awesome scouting spell.
Summon Monster IV: Also solid.
Web Cloud: Pretty serious AoE control.

Anyway, a lot there to consider.

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Thu May 18, 2017 3:08 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
marksman



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 1118
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

Post Reply with quote
I reread Calm Emotions. It is a L2 spell that "removes" confusion condition in a 20 radius. So this would get rid of confusion, but leaves everyone without the ability to take aggressive actions until attacked or damaged.

This one is better:
Suppress Charms and Compulsions

School abjuration; Level bard 2, cleric/oracle 2, paladin 2, sorcerer/wizard 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one creature plus one additional creature per 4 levels, no two of which can be further than 30 ft. apart
Duration 10 minutes; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

DESCRIPTION
As remove fear, except the targets gain a +4 morale bonus on saves against charm and compulsion effects, and charms and compulsions in effect on the targets are suppressed for the duration of the spell.

I think Sunshi may get a wand of this made. He has a high will save, so might be in control to use it. We should have one or two backups on a scroll that Lucien carries.

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Sunshi, unwilling visitor to Sandpoint
Fri May 19, 2017 10:36 am View user's profile Send private message
Weasel



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 7062
Location: Weasel Woods, Tn

Post Reply with quote
marksman wrote:
I reread Calm Emotions. It is a L2 spell that "removes" confusion condition in a 20 radius. So this would get rid of confusion, but leaves everyone without the ability to take aggressive actions until attacked or damaged.

This one is better:
Suppress Charms and Compulsions

School abjuration; Level bard 2, cleric/oracle 2, paladin 2, sorcerer/wizard 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one creature plus one additional creature per 4 levels, no two of which can be further than 30 ft. apart
Duration 10 minutes; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

DESCRIPTION
As remove fear, except the targets gain a +4 morale bonus on saves against charm and compulsion effects, and charms and compulsions in effect on the targets are suppressed for the duration of the spell.

I think Sunshi may get a wand of this made. He has a high will save, so might be in control to use it. We should have one or two backups on a scroll that Lucien carries.


Pathfinder speaks to this effect.

under multi mental controls

The casters have to make opposed Charisma checks

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Fri May 19, 2017 10:55 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
marksman



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 1118
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

Post Reply with quote
Weasel wrote:
marksman wrote:
I reread Calm Emotions. It is a L2 spell that "removes" confusion condition in a 20 radius. So this would get rid of confusion, but leaves everyone without the ability to take aggressive actions until attacked or damaged.

This one is better:
Suppress Charms and Compulsions

School abjuration; Level bard 2, cleric/oracle 2, paladin 2, sorcerer/wizard 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one creature plus one additional creature per 4 levels, no two of which can be further than 30 ft. apart
Duration 10 minutes; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

DESCRIPTION
As remove fear, except the targets gain a +4 morale bonus on saves against charm and compulsion effects, and charms and compulsions in effect on the targets are suppressed for the duration of the spell.

I think Sunshi may get a wand of this made. He has a high will save, so might be in control to use it. We should have one or two backups on a scroll that Lucien carries.


Pathfinder speaks to this effect.

under multi mental controls

The casters have to make opposed Charisma checks


In this case, I think that confusion gets cast first. There is no ongoing control or Protection from Evil would work.
Then Calm Emotions gets cast. The players under the effect of confusion can fail their saves and be under the effect of calm emotions. The confusion is "removed" by calm emotions. There is no fight for control since neither spell exerts control, just conditions.

Suppress Charm is Compulsion is the best solution, but is not an AOE. So with a CL4 wand for 6000gp, you can remove the confusion from two characters per casting. Lucien can pick this up as a L2 Pally spell.

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Sunshi, unwilling visitor to Sandpoint
Fri May 19, 2017 11:00 am View user's profile Send private message
scadgrad
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 9121
Location: The Bear cave

Post Reply with quote
Lucien is a very good spell casting Pally so I'll try to adjust his spell list to me more supportive of the party.

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Fri May 19, 2017 11:56 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Weasel



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 7062
Location: Weasel Woods, Tn

Post Reply with quote
regarding Balefire

- Hey, peeps....As a group...

We have an opportunity to adjust the party.

Would you like me to consider playing something else instead of a destruct0-Mage??

-Benifits
--- improves the party
--- don't have to go back to Magnimar
--- could fill in party problems

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Fri May 19, 2017 11:58 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
marksman



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 1118
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

Post Reply with quote
Weasel wrote:
regarding Balefire

- Hey, peeps....As a group...

We have an opportunity to adjust the party.

Would you like me to consider playing something else instead of a destruct0-Mage??

-Benifits
--- improves the party
--- don't have to go back to Magnimar
--- could fill in party problems


Only consider it if you want a change.

We will figure out a way to be successful with any mix in the party. We just may have to spend more resources on items to fill gaps llike wands, potions, items, scrolls, etc.

The prime thing is to have fun.

As a potential idea, Tony said you could play Lady until you get raised.

I wonder what kind of PC you could make out of Lady? Backstory could be that Balefire used his will to occupy his familiar upon death. Create a sorcerer/wizard ether elemental?

Honestly, I like Balefire. I think your could use this death experience to mature him from the crazed pyromaniac to a more cautious wiser wizard. A wiser wizard that starts taking a closer look at all those non-fire spells he had scoffed at during his younger days.

RPing wise it is a good reason for him to start picking up some defensive buffs and group utility spells like dispel magic (which can be used to counter spell).

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Sunshi, unwilling visitor to Sandpoint
Fri May 19, 2017 12:55 pm View user's profile Send private message
Purple Knight



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 1490
Location: Santa Rosa Beach, FL

Post Reply with quote
We do need a mage that can dish out a lot of damage simply because we don't have a fighting character that can really dish it out. Mardo is okay, but unless he Crits he is pretty much going to be stuck at the 19-30 hps per hit range. Now if he crits, sure it gets ugly, and I am going to add bleed damage to that on a crit as well, but that will only happen about 25% of the time at most, and that could mean for a long encounter with things that have hit points near 200 or higher. Bear in mind that at this same level, Vasen was consistently doing 10d6+5 per round, also criting about 25% of the time.

So we do need the good damage blaster, but maybe we could do with one that wasn't as hyper focused and was more overall utilitarian. I would think that a mage with 2-3 metamagic feats and magical lineage but with a wider spell list (not all just attack and defend just yourself spells) could be very helpful. Dispel Magic, Glitterdust, and Battlefield Control spells would be a great addition. Plus a Rod of Dazzling would be great so that even if you are doing slightly less damage, the Dazed effect still takes the opponent out of the contest. You also need spells that are not completely stopped by SR (like Snowball, for example-heck with magical lineage and intensify spell, and a rod of energy substitution, you could build a character just around this No Save (other than save vs staggared) and no SR spell.

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He made no wild, reckless vow; he swore no oath by saints or devils; he said only: Men shall die for this.
Fri May 19, 2017 1:21 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Weasel



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 7062
Location: Weasel Woods, Tn

Post Reply with quote
alright, I'll keep him.


BUT, I will rework his spell allotment.

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Fri May 19, 2017 1:59 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Weasel



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 7062
Location: Weasel Woods, Tn

Post Reply with quote
Anything we can do pre-game?

-loot list
-Balefire fate
-what happened after we took the fort

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Sat May 20, 2017 11:53 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Bass BB



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: Glen Allen, VA

Post Reply with quote
Tony I'm fine with using Evanora as a support caster. The spell list looks good to me so lets pull the trigger on that. Honestly my personality lends me to being better at supporting and strategy as opposed to being the head of the spear. Heck as long as slumber is on her list of hexes we can use her in many sorts of ways.


Balefire will live and join Eva in the quest for JUSTICE (rains from above). Just call him Chandra.

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All hail the brave monk Sunshi!
Sat May 20, 2017 3:30 pm View user's profile Send private message
scadgrad
Site Admin


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 9121
Location: The Bear cave

Post Reply with quote
Honestly, tonight's game will be sort of book keeping/catch up. I just got in from a weekend camping trip and still need to do quite a bit of work for my summer classes to launch.

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Sun May 21, 2017 11:55 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
marksman



Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 1118
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

Post Reply with quote
Running late. Should be home by 930 ET.

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Sunshi, unwilling visitor to Sandpoint
Sun May 21, 2017 7:45 pm View user's profile Send private message
Weasel



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 7062
Location: Weasel Woods, Tn

Post Reply with quote
Spells Memorized (normally):

Wizard spells: 0-[4] 1st-[4+1+1] 2nd-[3+1+1] 3rd-[3+1+1] 4th-[2+1+1]


4th- Controlled Fireball, Emergency Force Sphere, Greater Invisibility, Elemental Body I
3rd- Fireball x 4, Dispel Magic
2nd- Burning Arc x2, Summon Monster II, invisibility
1st- Burning Hands, Grease, Hydraulic push, Magic Missile x2, silent image (2 Pearls of Power)

0th-(at will) Ray of Frost, Prestidigitation, Open/Close, Spark

Sorcerer spells:

0 (at will)- Mage Hand, Read Magic, Detect Magic

1 (4) - Windy Escape, pro. evil, erase, featherfall

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Sun May 21, 2017 8:43 pm View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Weasel



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 7062
Location: Weasel Woods, Tn

Post Reply with quote
Current Treasure holdings. (some items are being used)

1,546 gp

+1 Spear 1150
+2 Belt of Strength 2000
MM (lvl 3) wand 44 charges 990 gp
wand vamp touch 33 ch 3712
wand ray of enfeeblement 38 ch 285 gp
mw q staff
300 gp ring
spell book
36 gp
10,623


6 +1 ogre hook 1150

+1 Amulet of Nat Armor 1000 gp
235 gp
50 gp
350 gp
arrow snareing gloves 2000 gp
275 gp
600 gp

21,633 gp
Wand of Scorching Ray, 22 charges 990 gp
+1 Keen Dagger; 4000 gp
MW Dagger; 150
2 Sihedron Medallion; 1750 gp
Scroll of Names;
500 gp jewelry (2 items);
5 +1 Hide Armor 550

30,773

+1 Human Bane Ogre Hook;
2 Belt of Giant St +2 2000 gp

Impaler of Thorns: 4500 gp
Medusa Mask: 5000 gp
Snake Skin Tunic: 4000 gp
2 Sihedron Medallion: 1750 gp each
+1 human bane Ogre Hook: 4000 gp
500 gp in jewelry


59,819 gp

11,964 each

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